It’s been a big year for cinema. “Barbie” grossed over $1.4 billion at the box office worldwide. “Oppenheimer,” another major release, grossed just shy of $1 billion.

But some movies weren’t quite as successful. “The Marvels,” for example, had the worst box office debut of any Marvel movie to date. “Indiana Jones and the Dial of Destiny” and “Mission: Impossible 7” performed below expectations. Interestingly, these films are part of movie franchises.

“I think you can no longer slap a cape and a pair of tights on a character and just assume that people are going to line up,” said Joanna Robinson, co-author of “MCU: The Reign of Marvel Studios.” “That is no longer an obvious gimme with audiences.”

“Marketplace” host Kai Ryssdal talked with Robinson about why many franchise entrees flopped this year. Below is an edited transcript of their conversation.

Kai Ryssdal: What has happened to the tentpoles? Let me just name them, right? We had the latest Indiana Jones movie, we had “Mission: Impossible,” we had “The Marvels,” which did not do what they were supposed to do at the box office. What’s going on?

Joanna Robinson: There’s a couple things going on. I mean, first and foremost, I think we still need to think about how fresh we are off the pandemic in terms of people feeling like they are safe to return to theaters. That’s still on people’s minds. I think one thing we need to look at with what did work to help us understand what didn’t work is the undeniable sensation of the year — Barbenheimer, right? “Barbie” and “Oppenheimer,” where it’s not just I’m going to see “Barbie” because that looks like a fun movie, [it’s] I’m going to see “Barbie” so I can dress up in pink with my friends or do the Barbenheimer event in one day and tweet about it or make a TikTok about it. And all of a sudden, the idea of going to the cinema doesn’t become this sort of sitting-quietly-in-the-dark experience anymore. And that’s been happening for years that people just keep their phones on in the movie theater, etc. But it becomes this sort of social event, mix-and-mingle event. And I think that also has something to do with a pandemic, people feeling so isolated for so long. They want to go out and connect with other people.

Ryssdal: And look, Hollywood is a slow-moving beast, right? But do you think this changes the way they’re going to approach selling their movies? Because, you know, I’m sick and tired of having to watch 42 Marvel universe movies to figure out what’s going on in the next one.

Robinson: The idea that there’s homework that comes with a Marvel movie, right? Yeah, it’s funny when you think about something like Marvel, the idea of an interconnected universe was sort of heralded as their big innovation. But now they’re seeing in the aftermath of that that people are feeling a little tired, are feeling like there’s a lot of homework. And so, what we are getting next year, in 2024, you say it’s a slow-moving machine, but we’re only getting one Marvel movie next year. And so there will be this respite. And they are very much in a space of trying to recoup, retrench and figure out how to go forward in a way that is friendly to newcomers as much as it’s friendly to the diehard comic book nerds.

Ryssdal: Well, thank goodness for small favors that they’re giving us a break on all of that, but let me ask you a variation of what you were just talking about. So Marvel and Indiana Jones and all the “Star Wars,” they were all germinated in a single element of IP, of intellectual property. And then Disney and all the rest of them just took that and exploded it. And yes, “Barbie” was IP and “Oppenheimer” came out of a book and also real life. And I guess my question is do you think audiences are sick and tired of hearing variations of the same story with slightly different characters and are looking for something new?

Robinson: We should say that there were a few hits this year. “Guardians of the Galaxy 3,” which is a Marvel movie, is one of the top movies of the year. “Across the Spider-Verse,” a Spider-Man movie, was one of the top movies of the year. Super Mario, Teenage Ninja Turtles, these are all properties we’ve seen before. So I think there are ways to do it that feel fresh and exciting for the audiences. And I would say Warner Brothers and their DC films had a worse year than Marvel, given what happened with “The Flash” or their film the “Blue Beetle” that you may have not even heard of.

Ryssdal: I saw it and I liked it, actually!

Robinson: I liked it too. And I think it’s getting new life on HBO Max. I think a lot of people are catching up with it now that it is on a streaming platform. But I think you can no longer slap a cape and a pair of tights on a character and just assume that people are going to line up. That is no longer an obvious gimme with audiences. And if you are sitting at home with your massive TV screen and your crisp surround-sound and your comfortable chairs and you say, what can the theatergoing experience really give to me? I don’t know that Marvel can assume that they have quite the juice to get people to go in the same way that they did in the last decade.