The back and forth over the debt ceiling

Make Me Smart May 19, 2023 Transcript

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Kai Ryssdal 

Hey everybody I’m Kai Ryssdal. Welcome back to make me smart, where we make the day make sense. It is Friday today, the 19th day of May.

Kimberly Adams 

Thank you so much everybody for joining us. I’m Kimberly Adams. And we appreciate you being here for economics on tap, which is our Friday news show where we’re going to do our YouTube livestream, which is up and running. Hey to everybody who’s joining us there. We’ve got some drinks, we’re going to do some news fixes, and we’re going to end with a round of half full, half empty. And first I believe we’re going to talk about some drinks.

Kai Ryssdal 

We are. What do you have? I will I will confess here that I’m having a cup of coffee because I have a choir concert to go to tonight and I need to stay awake. So yeah.

Kimberly Adams 

Although the emotion and the fact that the music will be so riveting is what’s really going to keep you awake, not the coffee of course.

Kai Ryssdal 

Let me just tell you actually. Usually I really enjoy the local high school choir concerts. And my kids have been in choir now for a number of years. And they’re really, really good. Super talented. Tonight is the “Pops concert.” And the music director for some reason has drones to make this a Disney themed pops concert. So I’m in for a night of Disney music and I God. Okay. Okay.

Kimberly Adams 

Well, you know, we’ve been talking about Disney so much over the last couple of days that it feels appropriate, you know, with all the Florida news. Well, I am having a mint julep because one of my neighbors was generous enough to share some of her mint because I forgot to put mine in in a timely fashion and they have a lot. So I made a mint julep. Which of course is just bourbon, sugar, a little bit of seltzer water/sparkling water, I use them the same, and mint. In my attempts to muddle the mint in the glass I actually broke the first glass. So this is drink number two. But I used my drink smoker and smoke to my mint julep. And so it’s quite tasty. Yeah.

Kai Ryssdal 

We should have sorry, I noticed that on I’m looking, I’m looking on the video… I’m looking down a lot because I’m looking at Kimberly’s. Anyway, whatever. I’m looking at my iPad, which is where the video shows up. You should, you should have done the smoking thing on camera so that we could see it.

Kimberly Adams 

I’ll do it next week.

Kai Ryssdal 

All right. Next time.

Kimberly Adams 

I’ll do it next week, next next week. Okay, so stay tuned for me with fire.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yes. All right.

Kimberly Adams 

Let’s do some news.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yes, go ahead. Go ahead.

Kimberly Adams 

I mean, we can’t stop talking about the debt limit, debt ceiling crisis, because it is, is kind of a crisis at this point. Because as you talked about on the show today, and as it’s everywhere, the talks broke down. I did notice this morning, you know, yesterday we mentioned that, you know, the house negotiators can say whatever they want. But the GOP conference can be a bit unruly, shall we say, and they may not be potentially on board with whatever deal gets negotiated and that could be a problem. Only to hear this morning about all the people on the progressive side who said “just a minute, we are not necessarily on board with these deals either.” And so even if this team of negotiators can come up with something, both sides are going to have a real challenge, getting their parties to fall in line for any deal. And I think you’re getting on almost opposite ends of the political spectrum, a deep questioning of how bad a debt crisis really would be. The GOP side saying, you know, “we need to make the cuts, that it’ll be painful for a little bit, but it’s worth it for the larger goals.” Some of the progressives kind of making this argument that, you know, if the markets tank, you know, that’s one thing, but that doesn’t necessarily reflect what’s happening in the real economy. And, you know, there’s a lot of different narratives coming across right now because it’s, as it comes down to it, nobody really knows what would happen, right? We don’t know. It’s we’ve never been here before. We have projections. But we don’t know for sure. Go ahead.

Kai Ryssdal 

I… So look, we don’t know for sure. But we can make really, really, really well educated guesses. And the answer is nothing good. Right? The answer is nothing good. And you can’t tell me that the closer we get to the 1 of June, if that’s the date, right? That’s the one that Yellen has said. She said it could be as soon as, but it might be a couple of days after that, whatever. Nothing good will be happening. And I don’t think we do anybody any favors if we gloss over the fact, or don’t acknowledge, that it will be really bad. It will be really bad.

Kimberly Adams 

Yes, it would be really bad. And I, I… I also wonder what contingencies are being laid out right? A couple of weeks ago, we were worried about cascading bank collapses, right? And people pull things together and came up with the solution to at least stem the worst of the tide, right? And I am going to lean into my optimism here. And I know you think I lean into it too much. And I’m going to hope and believe that there are some smart policymakers preparing for the worst right now. That will not eliminate the crisis, but will at least have some sort of strategies that might blunt the impact, hopefully on the most vulnerable. I don’t think there’s anything that’s going to save the markets. But is there going to be a way to blunt the impact on sort of average people in their day to day lives? That that’s that’s what my fingers are crossed for.

Kai Ryssdal 

So so, again, I will take the opposite side of that coin. I think there are not reasonable ways to make that happen. Because the system is just not set up that way. And I will point you as as my news item, an article in the Washington Post, pointing out that what happens on one June again, if that is the date. So here are the payments the government has to make on the first of June: $10 billion in military pay in retirement, $12 billion to veterans benefits, and then $47 billion to Medicare providers. The next stage, June 2nd: $25 billion in Social Security benefits go out to recipients. That might not happen. And nobody in any of those categories lives, fat and happy right? Social security benefits are not enough to get people through. People have to augment right? Medicare providers, people need their health care. I mean, none of that is “Yeah, it’d be fine.” And I… Yeah, yeah. Anyway.

Kimberly Adams 

I mean, it’s a bad situation. It’s a really bad situation. And and unlike when we’ve had these conversations in previous years, there’s not a clear path to fixing it.

Kimberly Adams 

And it’s definitely a deep cause for concern. Okay. Well my other news item is more distant, but still on my radar, which is that today, Tim Scott, officially is in the GOP running for the 2024 presidential race. Tim Scott being the only black member, Black Republican member of the Senate, and he’s a senator from South Carolina. He’s very popular, very senior in the GOP on the Senate side. And, you know, South Carolina’s a very important state in 2024. And it will make a big difference if the candidate is from there. I bring this up to not because I want to deluge people with election coverage any sooner than we have to, but just that the Republican field is broadening. We’ve got Nikki Haley, we’ve got Rick Scott officially, we’re probably going to have DeSantis next week in the mix. Of course, there is Trump. But you know, I’m looking at the polling. It’s still Trump. It’s still Trump. And it’s still Trump by a large margin. And I think a lot of people would love to kind of say that there’s no chance for Trump to win again and I think that’s very unrealistic. And I think especially those on the left, ignore this at their peril, that Trump’s…. the people who come out to vote in primaries are very, very passionately supporting Donald Trump. And again, I think it’s worth having the conversations now of what that’s gonna look like, if and, likely when, he becomes the GOP nominee. And we saw what CNN did the other day, didn’t love it. It was bad idea. Different news organizations are obviously taking a different strategy moving on from that. But there are a lot of very serious policy folks stepping in the ring on the Republican side: Nikki Haley, Tim Scott, these are people with real political pedigrees, and who have serious policy agendas that are effectively getting just completely overshadowed by the cult of personality that is Donald Trump. And it will be very fascinating to see how that plays out in the GOP primaries this year.

Kai Ryssdal 

It does seem more serious.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yeah, it really will. And here just as we head into election season, God I’m sorry I had to bring that up already that phrase, but we’re in it… I don’t know if you ever listen to Pod Save America. I do on occasion. Sometimes they get a little much for me, but but not infrequently one of them, and I think it’s either Dan Pfeiffer or Tommy Vietor points out that this 2024 election, much as the 2020 election is going to be decided by fewer people than go to see the average college football game on a Saturday. Right? If you take all those votes in all those, you know, purple states, Wisconsin, Arizona, Pennsylvania, right? 40,50,60,000 people, that’s it. That’s the number of votes. So, you know, if Trump’s nominee in one party and Biden is the nominee in the other party it’s a toss up. It’s it’s statistically a toss up.

Kimberly Adams 

Anyway, I’m so fascinated to see what Gen Z voters how they’re going to influence this race. I think it’s really… I think what Gen Z voters do in terms of voter turnout, in terms of the way that they go, is going to be the deciding factor in this election. And I’m very fascinated to see how that shows up.

Kai Ryssdal 

I will, I will check with my three voting children and see what they say.

Kimberly Adams 

Nice, thank you. Do report back.

Kai Ryssdal 

I will. I will indeed. Alright, that’s it for the news. We’re gonna take a quick break when we come back a round half full and a half empty

Kimberly Adams 

Okay, welcome back. And now we are ready to play our game Half full/half empty, where we go through some news topics that have been in the news during the week and we tell you how we are feeling about them. And for those joining in the YouTube live stream we’ll look forward to your input as well, especially on the last question where we have our live poll. And our wonderful game is hosted by our also wonderful Drew Jostad. Hey, Drew, let’s do it.

Drew Jostad 

All right. Are you half full or half empty on Montana’s Tik Tok ban?

Kai Ryssdal 

Wow. Yeah, this is a good one. Lawsuit’s have already been filed. So the governor of Montana Greg Gianforte this week banned people in Montana from downloading Tik Tok and putting in penalties I think, also for companies that leave it up in the App Store in Montana. I’m, I’m half empty on the move itself just on First Amendment grounds. I just think it’s it’s folly.

Kimberly Adams 

Same but I’m also half empty on the practicality of it. Like it’s effectively unenforceable. I mean, what are you going to do? Look at everybody’s phones and you know, rile up every, again, Gen Z voter, to basically roll their eyes at you and say, “you’re no longer fit for office because you don’t understand the Internet.” So half empty.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yeah. It’s exactly right. Yep.

Drew Jostad 

Okay, this week, Uber announced a service where you can call a number to request a ride, no app required. Are you half full or half empty?

Kai Ryssdal 

It’s a taxi cab. I don’t get it. I mean, you call this 833 number and they hook up with, you know, the person answering the phone, probably uses their phone to get an Uber to you, and then you go on your merry way. You give the person a credit card, and you’re done. Okay, fine, whatever, if it’s easier for, makes it easier for people to get around half full. Sure.

Kimberly Adams 

Yeah, I’m gonna go half full, just simply from an accessibility standpoint, especially for, you know, maybe older folks who don’t feel as comfortable navigating the app. Because Uber has decimated taxis, taxis are a lot harder to get. And so I imagine there’s a lot of people out there who need to use Ubers, but don’t necessarily feel comfortable with the software or have other kinds of disabilities that make it more challenging to use that interface. So I’m going half full. But what I’m more interested in is that now Uber has, I believe they’re rolling out in some cities coming up, the option to have like Uber for teens, where you can, as a parent or guardian set up account for… set up an account for a young person in your life, where you can track where they’re going, what they’re using, you can give them a budget or an account or something like that. And I think that’s probably going to be a more meaningful impact on their business model than the phone number thing.

Kai Ryssdal 

I think that’s totally true. Although I’m surprised it took them this long, because there has been for years, and I want to say 5 or 6 at least, a service called Hop, Skip and Drive, which does that especially screens drivers, and it’s all about kids, you know, 12,13, whatever it is, who can’t drive but can’t legally use Uber. And, and it’s geared toward them. And it’s been around for a while now.

Kimberly Adams 

It’s probably why they’re launching it.

Kai Ryssdal 

Right. Right. Right. Totally. Totally.

Kimberly Adams 

All right, what’s next?

Drew Jostad 

Next topic. Google Flights has a new feature on that on some flights, will automatically pay you the difference if the price drops on a flight that you’ve booked. Are you half full or half empty.

Kimberly Adams 

Kristin did the story, didn’t she?

Kai Ryssdal 

Sam fields

Kimberly Adams 

Sam fields, Sam fields. So I think it’s interesting because it you know, it only works with certain airlines and on certain fares. And I think when Sam did the story, the fare that she looked at was so cheap that it wouldn’t have made a difference anyway, to you know, have the price match. I think that the competition for flights, and the margins are getting thinner and thinner, that we’re going to see more stuff like this. In terms of the Google service, neutral. I’m not going to use it probably. I’ve actually started using more travel agents lately.

Kimberly Adams 

Have you? Really?!

Kimberly Adams 

Which yeah, yeah.

Kai Ryssdal 

Why?

Kimberly Adams 

Because I’m lazy, number one. Number two, a lot of the credit cards nowadays come with like a free travel agent service like baked into it that just isn’t well advertised. And part of it is that they’ll often guarantee if you can find a lower rate, they’ll match it. And so there’s not much of a risk to it. And then you’re already hopefully, depending on what kind of card you have, getting trip insurance with it. So it sort of bundles it all into one thing. And I’m just like, “can you please tell me where to go here? I don’t want to think about it.” And my sister loves to use travel agents. And you know, we use a sort of travel agent for work travel, and so it’s just like it’s true. I don’t I don’t… I spend enough time searching on the internet for things, I don’t want to search on the internet for flights.

Kai Ryssdal 

Fair enough. Fair enough. Yeah.

Drew Jostad 

All right. Are you half full or half empty on an ESPN specific streaming service?

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, so live sports is a huge revenue source for cable and ESPN has been a huge revenue source for cable and thank you Disney and now it’s gonna go streaming. I think it was only a matter of time. I’m a live sports guys. So you know teah, I think so. I’m half full on ESPN as a streamer.

Kimberly Adams 

I am half full for the most random of reasons which is that..

Kai Ryssdal 

Tell us oh sports fan.

Kimberly Adams 

I can imagine this being a very easy gift to give someone as its a standalone thing. You know? If there’s a sports fan in your life and you don’t know what to get them, this is going to be a not terribly expensive, but something you know they’ll probably like. I mean, it’s like the easiest cop out. It’s like flowers for Mother’s Day. Like “here have this thing.” So half full.

Kai Ryssdal 

Totally fair. Totally fair. All right. Drew is this number five coming up.

Drew Jostad 

Number five coming up.

Kai Ryssdal 

All right, so this is the poll all y’all in the live stream, why don’t you get ready? Drew’s gonna do it. Kimberly and I’ll tap dance for a minute while you get your entries in.

Kimberly Adams 

Whatever, you never dance for us Kai.

Kai Ryssdal 

I never do, you know why? Cuz I’m just no. Just no. Anyway, Drew, you were saying?

Drew Jostad 

I’m gonna go ahead and assume you guys don’t know what a what a Heinz remix is.

Kimberly Adams 

I absolutely know what this is.

Drew Jostad 

Oh so you do know what this is. So I don’t have to explain it.

Kimberly Adams 

No, no, I want to hear you explain this out.

Kai Ryssdal 

Not just us. Explain it for the crowd.

Drew Jostad 

Okay, it’s, it’s a two and a half foot wide, two and a half foot deep machine with a touchscreen that is a sauce dispenser. And you can choose between ketchup Ranch, Heinz 57, or barbecue sauce, as well as a range of flavor enhancers and you can customize your sauce, to they say it can make up to 200 combinations of sauces, and may be rolling out next year in ballparks or movie theaters. And it will, of course, track all of the data of what type of sauce people are ordering.

Kai Ryssdal 

I didn’t even thought of that.

Drew Jostad 

If the owner of the machine wants to know that type of information. Are you half full or half empty on this monstrosity?

Kimberly Adams 

You know, you’re this kind… of this monstrosity? How do you really feel Drew? You know, it’s it’s funny. This kind of exists already in the soda department. If you go to the movie theaters now where they just give you the cup. And you can make whatever combination of soda, or pop depending on where you are in the country, that you want in whatever volumes your little heart desires. And it’s kind of the same thing just with condiments. The very amazing journalist Prisca Neely, once during, I think it was during the pandemic, she made a… she wrote a song and made a video on social media about her love of condiments, and I will have to look it up. It is glorious. I believe it’s a public video. And she’s sort of top notch investigative journalist, broke a ton of news about black maternal health, and black maternal mortality amongst black women, and really did some award winning journalism, but also wrote a song about condiments that she performed and it’s very funny.

Kimberly Adams 

Is is now she isn’t she now some muckety muck at the other public radio outfit, right.

Kimberly Adams 

I think she runs like their southern editorial. She’s she’s in charge of things. She’s in charge of things all the time. She’s very, she’s a big shot. She’s a big shot. But it’s funny because I actually don’t, I don’t like condiments in general. But there are very few condiments that I I have. I mean, I’ll do barbecue sauce. I’ll do a little bit of cocktail sauce here and there. I don’t like ketchup. I don’t like mayonnaise. I don’t like mustard. I don’t like relish

Kai Ryssdal 

That’s so funny because you’re into all your concoctions for your, for your cocktails. I know this is a stretch and there’s probably, it probably does not analogize well, but I just think that’s interesting.

Kimberly Adams 

I mean, it’s, I guess I like to know what’s in it, you know? So like, I’m the olive oil and vinegar girl for salad dressings, you know? And I want to know what’s there and these condiments are just unnaturally, they have unnatural colors, and lumps I don’t understand and chemicals I can’t pronounce. I’m just like hard pass.

Kai Ryssdal 

So where are you on this machine? You go then I’ll go.

Kimberly Adams 

Okay, where am I on the machine? I am half full, because I love anything that lets people customize their experience. And I think it will reduce waste because you have people who would take like…

Kai Ryssdal 

Well that’s true.

Kimberly Adams 

Three different containers of single serve condiments, just to get the mix that they like. So now you can just sort of make it and hopefully reduces waste. So I am half full.

Kai Ryssdal 

I’m half full too, just because people want to people ought to be able to do whatever condiments they want. That’s all I’m saying. That’s all I’m saying.

Kai Ryssdal 

All right. We need the poll up here

Kimberly Adams 

Kevin was saying “but the chemicals make them so delicious.” Yeah chemicals generally do make things delicious. All right. How did the poll do? We had 189 votes and the outcome is half empty 52%, half full 47%. Hmm, interesting.

Kai Ryssdal 

Oh, Carrie Sykes brings up something very interesting: “that nozzle is gonna get so clogged and flavors will mix anyway” That’s true. That’s true.

Kimberly Adams 

Which brings up like the bane of my existence, which is when I travel, and I want to have tea in the mornings because coffee is not for me. And the in-room thing will always taste like coffee even if you only run hot water through it. And so I actually and Noel King had one of these and I saw hers and then I went and got it, this little collapsible silicone teapot that I now travel with it so that I can boil my own water in the room and make my tea that doesn’t taste like coffee. So the nozzle flavoring is such an issue. So yes, I feel it.

Kai Ryssdal 

All right. Oh my god. There we go. Boom.

Kimberly Adams 

So many thoughts on so many things. All right. Thank you, everybody, for joining us today for half full/half empty, for the show in general. If you had a good time, and even if you didn’t, I would hope that you would consider supporting us. We are still in our fundraising drive. And in particular, it is a $5 Friday at Marketplace. And so you can start your support if you’re not already a supporter, and if you are, we love you, hearts. You can start your support for Marketplace and make me smart with a monthly gift of $5 or more, if you so choose, and pick a thank you gift. We dug into the vault and we’re bringing back some old favorites in terms in the swag department at a discounted rate. So we’re bringing back the Kai-P-A pint glass, which everyone loves so much. And the Jasper wine tumblers. He’s still back there? Yes, that guy, who except for he’s more active on the tumbler. He’s up and not asleep, which he is most of the time now. Anyway, your support would really help us get to our goal, closer to our goal of $350,000 and you’re gonna get those fun, thank you gifts. And it’s about to be picnic season so that wine tumbler I should say really good on a picnic or for festivals and outings and things like that for beverages alcoholic or not.

Kai Ryssdal 

Limited quantities, as they say. So don’t wait. It’s today only. $5 a month or more if you’d like. marketplace.org/givesmart or clicking the link in the show notes. And please and thank you.

Kimberly Adams 

Please and thank you. I love that you’ve adopted that. That’s wonderful.

Kai Ryssdal 

I know right? I kind of, I kind of don’t mind it actually.

Kimberly Adams 

Make Me Smart is produced by Courtney Bergsieker. Today’s episode was engineered by Charlton Thorp. Drew Jostad wrote the theme music to Half-Full/Half-Empty. Antonio Barreras is our intern.

Kai Ryssdal 

The team behind our Friday game is Mel Rosenberg, Emily Macune and Antoinette Brock. Marissa Cabrera is our senior producer. Bridget Bodnar is the director of podcasts. And Francesca Levy is the executive director of things.

Kimberly Adams 

Now that they put digital on demand. She is the executive director of things. She runs stuff. Like this guy.

Kai Ryssdal 

Is on her business card.

Kimberly Adams 

Have a great weekend, everybody.