The dirty side of the fast-fashion business 

Make Me Smart July 11, 2023

**Note: Marketplace podcasts are meant to be heard, with emphasis, tone and audio elements a transcript can’t capture. Transcripts are generated using a combination of automated software and human transcribers, and may contain errors. Please check the corresponding audio before quoting it.

Kimberly Adams 

Mr. Ryssdal whenever you feel it moves you.

Kai Ryssdal 

I’m ready, Jayk. Let’s go. I don’t know what day it is. I don’t know where I am.

Kimberly Adams 

It’s like when the spirit moves you, like they used to say. Hello, I’m Kimberly Adams. Welcome back to Make Me Smart, where none of us is as smart as all of us. It is July 11.

Kai Ryssdal 

I’m Kai Ryssdal. Joining us on this Tuesday, one show one topic, today it is fashion fast fashion, ultra fast fashion, some of the digital health questions, the challenges, and sort of the moralish quandaries that come along with buying really, really, really, really cheap clothes.

Kimberly Adams 

Right. And this was in the news a bit ago, if anybody heard all that backlash against the ultra fast fashion retailer Shein. Yeah, it’s Shein right? Shein?

Kai Ryssdal 

Shein right? Isn’t Shein? But you know what, we’ve got an expert whose gonna tell us.

Kimberly Adams 

We’re gonna get to it in a second. But for those who didn’t hear that story, this is a fast fashion brand and it funded this big influencer trip to one of its factories in China. And Shein has faced all sorts of allegations that range from labor rights abuses, use of potentially hazardous materials in some of their clothes and clothing. And that got us thinking about the fast fashion industry at large, and how toxic chemicals can end up in some of the stuff we wear. Luckily for us, or maybe not luckily, depending on what we learned here. Alden Wicker has just written a book on this. She’s a journalist and a sustainable fashion writer, and author of the new book “To Dye For: How Toxic Fashion Is Making Us Sick.” Welcome to the show.

Alden Wicker

Thank you for having me.

Kimberly Adams 

We hear a lot about people making these fast fashion clothes being exposed to dangerous chemicals, which is its whole other horrible thing. But what about us, the people wearing them?

Alden Wicker

Yeah, I think most people believe that all of that toxic pollution that they hear about, it stays over in the countries that make our clothes. But in fact, those, many of those chemicals, most of those chemicals can stay on our clothing. And they end up in our closets, and then on our skin when we wear that clothing. And many of those chemicals have known links to many different illnesses, including cancer.

Kai Ryssdal 

Okay, so why are we making stuff that kills us?

Alden Wicker

That’s a good question. There’s many different reasons those chemicals are on the clothing. Some of them are applied deliberately, like in the case of PFAS, which has been in the news lately, because it’s incredibly toxic, carcinogenic, reproductive, toxic, it’s in the water of many Americans. And it’s also applied deliberately to outdoor clothing and other types of clothing to give it stain and water repellency, including children’s clothing.

Kimberly Adams 

So specifically, though, what kind of what chemicals are we talking about? So there’s PFAS, which are these forever chemicals. What are the other chemicals that are commonly used in in clothing production? And I was reading in your book, it’s not necessarily just the textiles it’s also the dyes.

Alden Wicker

Yeah, specifically disperse dyes which are used to dye polyester and they are known skin sensitizers. So if you are having skin reactions, you might go into a dermatologist. They’ll give you a patch test, and many times it comes up positive for disperse dyes, like blue or black. There are other things though, that you can’t even see sometimes tests in the last decade, including in Shein, children’s clothing has found high amounts of lead phthalates, which is an endocrine disruptor that’s used in plastic, BPA also another endocrine disruptor that is used as a plasticizer, that’s been found in workout gear, and then you have contaminants so sometimes clothing comes over and is contaminated with pesticides or fungicides. That’s accidental contamination but you know, that can be really really bad for our health.

Kai Ryssdal 

I’m sorry, you said sometimes clothing comes over. So most of this is made overseas more cheaply, right? In possibly not great conditions. And then and then imported over here, right? Is that the deal?

Alden Wicker

Absolutely, most of our clothing is made abroad these days, especially the dyeing and wet processing. And I did visit some dye houses in Tiruppur in Tamil Nadu, India, where many of our T-shirts are dyed. And it’s an incredibly polluted area. But I also met a garment worker who was having extremely severe skin reactions just from sewing some of these clothing.

Kai Ryssdal 

Say more about what it’s like over there, what those factories are like, and just give us a sense.

Alden Wicker

Well, there’s a few different kinds of factories, so some of them, are, have all the certifications, right, they use very safe processes state of the art equipment. And they’re very proud to tour you around and show you what they’re doing. They produce for very large brands like H&M, and Disney, which many people don’t know, is a big fashion brand, as well. And then there are factories that produce for brands that don’t really care that much. They’re cheaper. They might be just a big open air shed with some large, what looked like very large laundry machines and an open air waste pit nearby. And then there are the worst kinds of dye houses, which I was not taken to because those likes to be hidden away. Yeah.

Kimberly Adams 

You know, you wrote quite a bit in your book about airline attendants. And I was on a plane yesterday, and I asked some of the airline attendants about, you know, “Hey, have you ever had any problems with your clothes?” And every single one of them was like, Oh, my gosh, absolutely. We, lots of people get sick, lots of people have problems, where it’s hot conditions, you rub on it, and it’s rubbing on your skin. And if you wear something else, it kind of singles you out as somebody who’s not on the team. And so can you walk through why airline attendants in particular are so vulnerable to this?

Alden Wicker

Well, airline attendants are particularly vulnerable, because they don’t live a particularly healthy lifestyle, their circadian rhythm is out of whack, the you know, they’re in this sealed tube of air all the time. But the main difference between airline attendants and regular people is that they kind of they were a closed experiment, they all got their uniforms at the same time at four different major airlines, they were able to talk to each other about like, “hey, you know, my hair’s falling out,” or “I have this terrible rash.” And so even then it took several of them, many of them that I talked to several months to make that connection, because the airline was saying, “Oh, no, no, no, this is, you know, this is an individual sensitivity. We’ve had our things tested, they’ve come back as okay.” But they were able to make that connection. And in fact, there was a Harvard study that showed that reactions, like multiple chemical sensitivity, breathing problems, rashes did just about double in attendants that at Alaska Airlines who receive these new uniforms, so it was confirmed. But if you or I had toxic fashion in our closet, we might never make that connection and and figure out okay, where are these rashes coming from? Or why am I so tired today?

Kimberly Adams

Yeah, well how…

Kai Ryssdal 

I mean, is this a new… ? Go ahead, Kimberly?

Kimberly Adams 

Sorry. Well, yeah, like how do you know like, so in the airline attendants, closed experiments, they all were wearing the same thing. And this wasn’t just Alaska Airlines, it was several other airlines, have had the same thing. But for the rest of us. How can somebody know if it’s your clothes making you sick, as opposed to PFAS in your water or bad air quality or something else?

Alden Wicker

It must be a pretty extreme situation to figure it out. I mean, most people wouldn’t even even think of this, right. So I spoke to one mother whose child had severe severe eczema. And she did everything else first. She changed their diet, she changed their cleaning products. She changed their personal care products. She got him medication. I mean, she was a pediatric nurse. And then when he got old enough as a toddler to use his words, she realized it was the fashion. So it was the last thing she checked. Another way people might find it out is yeah, they go to the dermatologist and they get a patch test. And it comes back as you’re allergic to these five chemicals. And they’re typically used to dye or make or create fashion. But even then, once you know that you have these allergies, it’s almost impossible to avoid them because fashion doesn’t come with a complete ingredient list.

Kai Ryssdal 

Well, so you’re picking right up on the next question, which is government regulation. Hello, the FDA regulates you know, what goes in our bodies, food wise, and drugs? Is there nothing that says you can’t put these chemicals in clothing that we put on our skin?

Alden Wicker

In fact, at the federal level, there is almost no regulation of what you can put in clothing and sell to adult consumers. The only regulation at the federal level is three chemicals and just for children’s products. There was a test of airline uniforms and it found chlordane. Chlordane is one of the very few pesticides that are so toxic that they were banned for all sale, all use, no exceptions in the 80’s. But there’s actually nothing illegal about selling clothing that has this toxic pesticide on it to consumers or making your employees wear that clothing.

Kimberly Adams 

How long has this been going on that, you know, toxic chemicals have been in our clothes because it feels like oh, we should go back to the good old days of you know, just regular textiles and we’ll be fine.

Alden Wicker

Clothing has been toxic for actually hundreds of years, you might have heard of the Mad Hatter that came from Mercury being used to create men’s hats since the 1500’s, 1600’s. And then there was the famous arsenic green dyes. And those were invented in the mid-1800s. And they were extremely popular and there’s accounts of women being rolled around ballrooms in arsenic green dresses with arsenic coming off their dresses into the air giving people swollen eyes giving the woman rashes on their foreheads from their arsenic green, floral wreath. And in fact, a wreath maker, a young woman died in London from arsenic poisoning.

Kai Ryssdal 

So if I want to be an informed, yeah right? If I want to be informed clothing consumer, what do I do?

Alden Wicker

Well, there are some things that people can do to reduce their exposure and their family’s exposure to some of these toxic or hazardous chemicals. So they should absolutely avoid ultra fast fashion brands. It does take care and money to manage the chemicals in your supply chain. And when something is too cheap to be true, that’s probably not happening. So avoid those. I’m talking about those brands that you’ve never heard of with the gibberish names that you see on Amazon or you might see on social media. Natural fibers tend not always but tend to be better than synthetic fibers. In many ways. Avoid performance products, performances, performance and promises. So if it promises to be wrinkle free, anti-stain, anti-odor, quick, dry, all of those different things are usually achieved with chemicals, chemical finish. And they can look for labels like Oek-Tex blue sign, and GOTS organic. And the final thing I recommend is to wash anything new that you buy in a non-fragrance detergent.

Kimberly Adams 

I just I’m listening to what you’re saying. And this idea of avoid wrinkle-free, stain-proof, water-resistant, I can’t imagine that the modern consumer is ready to give up all those things so easily. And also, fast fashion in itself is something that like a lot of people feel is the, you know, way to make something that seems unaffordable, feel accessible. And I wonder how you tell people to kind of like, balance those things out, the way that we actually live and want to live versus, you know, the risk, the level of risk here.

Alden Wicker

I agree that it’s a pretty untenable situation that we’re putting this all on consumers who largely do not have a degree in chemistry to protect themselves from what we know are hazardous chemicals. And there is some good work done, especially at the state level. So California Prop 65, which is the reason why you see those labels everywhere that say this has substances that are known to be carcinogenic and mutagenic, reproductive toxic. That’s actually done a lot of work to get toxic chemistry out of fashion products specifically because a lot of brands don’t want to have to put that label on their clothing. So that’s been actually incredibly helpful. But of course, we need to do much, much more.

Kimberly Adams 

Alden wicker is the author of the new book “To Dye For” and that’s die with a “y”. “How Toxic Fashion Is Making Us Sick.” Thank you very much. I shall now go and throw away all of the clothes in my closet. Thanks.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yeah, no kidding, right. All that thanks a lot. Thank you.

Kimberly Adams 

Ah, boy. Right, like I… the performance clothes, kind of that that gutted me because it’s like I’m trying to work out more and you want to get these fabrics that you know are you working and don’t make you sweat so much and it’s like and apparently give you cancer. And, you know, caveat here that you know in Alden has all of these like fact checks and citations in her book and things like that. Obviously there are a lot of companies and textile producers and manufacturers that don’t necessarily agree with all of this but you know, there’s a big long list of citations and fact checks in bulk and stuff like that. So,

Kai Ryssdal

For sure.

Kimberly Adams

Tell us your thoughts about the fast fashion industry. Our number is 508-827-6278 also known U-B-SMART. Or if you’ve had an experience where you feel like your clothes are making you ill you can also email us at make me smart@marketplace.org. And we will be right back.

Kai Ryssdal 

Alright, it’s time for the news. Kimberly Adams you get to go first.

Kimberly Adams 

Yes. So Alden made some passing reference to this in our conversation about PFAS in the water. There was a survey out, I think report ou,t I think last week from the US Geological Survey, it was a study that found, yeah, it was on July the fifth, that found at least 45% of the nation’s tap water is estimated to have one or more types of chemicals known as PFAS. And there are more than 12,000 types of it. Not all of which are detected with current tests. And they only tested for 32 types. And there’s a map on the USGS website. It’s concentrated in big cities, urban areas, especially along the northeast corridor where I am, yay. But also in other big cities. But lest you just want to kind of crawl into a hole and die, Vox has a explainer piece on what to do about this. And so if you are worried about PFAS in your drinking water, it gives some suggestions. You know, filter your water, there’s a couple of different ways to filter your water that can help. But you know, once it’s in your body, you’re kind of stuck. So yeah, there’s that.

Kai Ryssdal 

Well, thank you for that uplifting news item.

Kimberly Adams 

You’re welcome.

Kai Ryssdal 

Yeah, right, man. Okay, mine goes completely somewhere else. And it’s, it’s, it’s a little dorky. But you know, that’s kind of my job. The Biden administration has been primarily through the Federal Trade Commission, and it’s chair, Lina Khan, trying to regulate more intensely big technology companies. Lots has been made about Facebook and some others out there that chair Khan is trying to go after. A judge ruled today that Microsoft can in fact pursue its $69 billion acquisition of, actually 75 billion in total, but $69 billion of cash I think, of Activision Blizzard. And here’s why that’s important. Number one, it’s kind of a setback for chair Khan and she came in and the Biden administration came in saying, Listen, we are going to do something about big tech. And now a federal judge is saying no, they can’t. But also if you are a gamer, or if you are a user of Xbox products, and then you like to do like Call of Duty and other things, which I guess makes you a gamer. Your options now will become limited because Microsoft will control the pipes, which is to say the Xbox, but also content, which is to say the games and unless something really really changes. This deal is gonna go forward this summer and it’s kind of a big deal in the tech space.

Kimberly Adams 

And I think this blow for the FTC is is gonna reverberate because this is, it was kind of a test case for some of the other attempts to get in between some of these bigger mergers. So we’ll see how that goes. Yeah.

Kai Ryssdal 

All right. So we are done. Now we’ll go to the mailbag.

Mailbag

Hi Kai and Kimberly. This is Godfrey from San Francisco. Jessie from Charleston, South Carolina. And I have a follow up question. It has me thinking and feeling a lot of things.

Kimberly Adams 

I was just in my hometown of St. Louis for a few days. If you’ve heard us on the pod yesterday, you know that and we got this Missouri related message from Megan in Kalamazoo. And Megan wrote, “this article came across my newsfeed and I immediately thought of Kimberly for the Missouri entry.” And the article “Cartoonist’s Humorous Comics Of Each State Bring “USA Geography” To Life”. “The cartoonist Nathan Pyle is amazing in general, and this list just made me happy.” Let me click on this link. I am terrified of what I will find for Missouri. Let me look, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Minnesota, ah, Missouri, lapped cat of the USA. And it’s kind of picture of the outline of the United States sort of smiling and then Missouri is shaped like a little cat with on the lap of the country. That is cute. That’s cute. Okay. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Let’s see. Yeah.

Kai Ryssdal

Cute. Nice, right? We’ll put it on the showpage. It’s great. Yeah, that’s great.

Kai Ryssdal 

All right. Before we go, we are going to leave you out as we always do with this week’s answer to the make me smart question, which is all together: what is something you thought you knew, but later found out you were wrong about? This week’s answer comes to us from Major Jackson. He’s the host of the poetry podcast, The Slow Down.

Major Jackson

I thought that language was something that happened to you. I thought we merely use language to express how we feel, or to communicate what we want or desire. But since I’ve made language my profession or started writing poetry, I’ve come to learn how language is also a place to inhabit, where we construct narratives, almost like buildings that determine how we live and view the world. Frankly, I wish we all paid more attention to language so that we would be less susceptible to its abuses.

Kimberly Adams 

The words we say matter. Yeah, I love that podcast. I I, I really listened to it, especially a lot during the earlier days of the pandemic like it was really soothing, but it’s nice. It’s, it’s nice and short. If y’all haven’t listened to it, you should check it out. But it’s a little dose of poetry in your life. We could all use it. Okay, we want to hear your answer to the make me smart question. Our number is 508-827-6278 also known as 508-U-B-SMART.

Kai Ryssdal 

Today’s episode of this particular podcast was produced by Courtney Bergsieker. Ellen Rolfes writes our newsletter. Today’s program was engineered by Jayk Cherry. Brian Allison is gonna mix it down later. Our intern is Niloufar Shahbandi.

Kimberly Adams 

Ben Tolliday and Daniel Ramirez composed our theme music. Our senior producer is Marissa Cabrera. Bridget Bodnar is the director of podcast. Francesca Levy is the executive director of Digital. And Marketplace’s Vice President and General Manager is Neal Scarbrough.

Kai Ryssdal 

Sorry about the lawnmower, if you guys could hear that. I’m in the shed.

Kimberly Adams

Yeah.

Kai Ryssdal

At least there was only one dog bark, so you know, there’s that.